The Satyr Lectures

Light/Dark

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Need/Excess
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Waves to Particles
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Gene/Meme disharmony.
How the mind forgets the body, and calls this forgetfulness 'freedom'.

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Satyr wrote:

To integrate heterogeneous populations and mediocrity you need to dumb-down and to create a belief based on the lowest-common-denominator.
The mediocre need a lie top keep them disciplined.

What you are referring to is my comment on monogamy, which is not natural for the human species.
But the system must impose it to create stability, otherwise males would compete and free-radicals, or males that were left out of the mating pool would destabilize the group's cohesion.
Paternalism imposes a rule that does not come natural to man, so as to integrate into it as many males as possible and make them invested in the group's stability.

I was thinking of a different definition of natural. Yours seems to be more along the lines of "aligned with instincts that naturally evolved for most of the time our species was alive". And given that definition, I'd agree with you.

The definition of natural I was thinking of is "aligned with nature/natural hierarchies" / "based on a recognition of natural law and thus a naturally competitive strategy".

The point I was trying to make is, it is possible for human social systems to select for certain traits which might not be selected for in nature but that still result in a stable and functional system adapted to nature. An example of such a trait is intelligence, which requires a certain kind of society to fully manifest its potential. If you put a genius into a forest he'll just get eaten by wolves, if you put him in society he can invent weapons and techniques which make it possible for him and his group to exterminate all wolves everywhere, if they choose to do so.

So the individual may not be adapted to nature, but they can be adapted to society, and if society is adapted to nature, things can still work out, oftentimes much better than in the scenario where the individual adapts directly to nature, like Tarzan, or what Varg is attempting to do, because cooperation is a net benefit to those who engage in it. The problem is when society starts selecting for traits which don't maintain it.

If a society applies selective pressures which result in the reproduction of the kind of population that sustains it against natural elements and other societies, then the population will be increasingly more adapted to living in that society (more eugenic), and it won't break down.

So if you're enforcing monogamy f.e. and only people who are monogamous reproduce, then each succeeding generation will be increasingly more monogamous. The longer you do this, the more "natural", as you use the word, it becomes. After all, nature is the sum of the past. So as long as it is overall a good competitive strategy, what is unnatural to humans can be made natural/more natural by applying selective pressures for long periods of time.

Other traits and predispositions can be selected for in the same way as long as they make society self-sustaining and competitive. Non-self sustaining and non-competitive traits can also be selected for in some circumstances, but that tends not to end well, as those of us here on KT know.

We agree.

My definition of natural; is plastered all over the place.
Nature = sum of all nurturing. The past, precedence.
The past is made present as phenomenon, appearance.

So natural order is this appearance of the sum of all past interactivity, the entire past, as presence - as order.
A nihilistic meme can contradict this, because mind can detach from natural order and synthesize and overturn - invert - abstractions creating contradictions to nature.
Memes contradicting genes - ideals contradicting the real - a theory, an ideology, contradicting the experienced world.

Memes in harmony with nature means a culture based on precedent.
Of course monogamy is a contradiction to human nature.
But over time it can be harmonized with it....eugenics.

Of course, any artificial systems runs the risk of dysgenic tyranny. Monogamous societies succeed against outside forces because of increased cooperation for the reasons said by Satyr, even in Asia. Males who challenge the system will inevitably try to offer a sweeter deal to males than the same system offers, monogamy being one way if a system doesn't already offer it. Generally in nature, including chimps, the most social, intelligent, strong and more importantly charismatic male becomes alpha. If that male prevents or tries to prevent betas from mating entirely and can't manage power relationships, the beta chimps will do a literal beta uprising and rip the alpha to shreds. Every male wants to own the most amount of beautiful women, or else he would not take advantage of chances at such reproductive successes. What gets selected for in monogamous societies is feminization and nonviolence, or else intelligence enough to cope with and realize postponed or after-lifetime frontiers with the ability to perform human husbandry.

Un-free Will
State as the representation of the secular God

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Science of God...
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Exoteric/Esoteric Data Streams
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Mind/Nervous System/Body

No randomness, no freedom
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Language

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What is philosophy?
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Satyr wrote:

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Before puberty, one does not really have a concept of self-responsibility such that one takes ownership/responsibility for their own ignorance. It is at puberty, when a young man burns up attempting to rid himself of ignorance, that he begins challenging the father figure as he seeks to establish his own station with his own justification against accusations of entitlement or weak crutches on paternity. I mention this because of the theological interest in Christianity where one could say that the concept of 'sin' requires the idea that one take responsibility for even the conditions of the outside world - if one would not instead say that one should take responsibility for one's own reactions and complain not about what they cannot change. The peculiar part of Christianity is when Jesus said, though, not that one should adapt and think ahead, but that they should instead trust in Him to provide. Now, this can just as well be a nigh impossible standard we are supposed to countenance as true, also as a way of saying to 'preserve to yourself responsibility' and repent for having fallen short/sinned; with repentance a call to returning to that condition or a call to request saving.

Race
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Slaughtz wrote:

Before puberty, one does not really have a concept of self-responsibility such that one takes ownership/responsibility for their own ignorance. It is at puberty, when a young man burns up attempting to rid himself of ignorance, that he begins challenging the father figure as he seeks to establish his own station with his own justification against accusations of entitlement or weak crutches on paternity. I mention this because of the theological interest in Christianity where one could say that the concept of 'sin' requires the idea that one take responsibility for even the conditions of the outside world - if one would not instead say that one should take responsibility for one's own reactions and complain not about what they cannot change. The peculiar part of Christianity is when Jesus said, though, not that one should adapt and think ahead, but that they should instead trust in Him to provide. Now, this can just as well be a nigh impossible standard we are supposed to countenance as true, also as a way of saying to 'preserve to yourself responsibility' and repent for having fallen short/sinned; with repentance a call to returning to that condition or a call to request saving.

And, of course, sin cannot be avoided, because a imperfect being, man, can never reach a 'perfect' being, 'god'.
So he's left with a life of shame, guilt, he must constantly ask forgiveness for, and make amends.

Natural/Artificial
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Behaviour and Predictability

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Self, an overview...
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Morality
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Empathy corrupted by sympathy/antipathy...

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Slaughtz wrote:

What gets selected for in monogamous societies is feminization and nonviolence, or else intelligence enough to cope with and realize postponed or after-lifetime frontiers with the ability to perform human husbandry.

More accurate.

Any society will necessitate a degree of feminization and nonviolence to facilitate submission to externally imposed rules. The feminizing effects on men can be reduced by making it so that these rules correspond to a higher degree to men's internal rules so that less submission of men is required, which is to say, by establishing a patriarchy, and by remaining externally competitive - violent against other groups.

The real downside of monogamy as it is usually conceived compared to polygamy is it is less eugenic, but this can be avoided by setting up the system so that the most productive, highest quality people reproduce the most.

Polygamy can only result in a stable society if you have a way to deal with all the men who are excluded. You might send them to other people's countries, effectively saying "don't kill us and take our women and resources, go fight these other guys for their women and their resources, and even if you die you get 70 virgins in the afterlife". That's a clever strategy, especially paired with indoctrination.

Mind lag
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Temporal lag
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